Tuesday, November 15, 2011

// // 13 comments

Prophetic Gibberish

by Reb Akiva @ Mystical Paths

Our post on Financial Mabul generated a bit of an odd conversation on Facebook…

Commentor - You lot are so in to this type of prophetic gibberish, the Rebbe King Moshiach clearly stated that the True & Complete Redemption is already Here and Now, all we must do is Open Our Eyes, see it and celebrate it. PLEASE CHANGE YOUR TUNE! Love….

Reb Akiva - it's a lovely statement and every word from the Rebbe was min hashamayim (brought down from Heaven). Yet for us simple ones who don't understand, please explain EXACTLY what "the True & Complete Redemption is already Here and Now" means, right now in this current world. By the way, those are not the Rebbe's exact words, I suggest as well that when quoting the Rebbe on such an important issue you use the exact wording - it makes a difference in the understanding. With ahavas yisroel and for the sake of understanding and revealing Torah…

Commentor - for someone as intelligent and well versed in both the revealed and mystical Torah as you clearly are, your approach to the Rebbe's statements being "heavenly" are in diametric opposition to the use Hashem intended for your natural intelligence. As noted many times both on your site and in Tanya a Jew is dynamically part of the Creator and the "world" is part of Creation, it takes a simple point of self reflection, not anything too spiritual to realize that when the Jewish people change the the whole world changes!

When you emotional, mental and spiritual focus is on doom and gloom, you H"V (G-d forbid) create more of it. The Rebbe is asking us to focus on the True Reality, that Golus is an Illusion! And that we have to wake up from this dream of Golus and get ready to receive Moshiach! We must step, forward, by changing our focus and attitude so that we begin to co-create Moshiach Now! And start to celebrate the True and Complete Redemption which is here and now, if we choose to accept it.

Reb Akiva - You make a good point, tracht gut vzein gut (think good and it will be good) as the Friedeker Rebbe said.

"We must step, forward". Ok, I'll bite. Tanya spends all of Likeutei Aramim to teach us how to understand and approach a mental activity mitzvah (focusing our emotions to love Hashem). Can you point out the practical approach / activity instructions from the Rebbe to "focus on the True Reality" and "change our focus ...to co-create Moshiach"?

Commentor - Be happy, dance - look for the good and celebrate it - learn more about Moshiach and Geula ?!?!

…Both items are good advice, but almost every Chabad house has been focused on Moshiach and Geulah for the past 18 years or so.  I’m sure it’s making a difference, but still, here we are. 

Being happy and dancing, the Na Nachers and Breslevers have that pretty much covered (and are affecting those around them positively in those areas) and Chabad’s pretty simchadic as well.  But still, here we are.

These are not practical instructions for changing the world or the Jewish people. 

Further, I fail to see why we would IGNORE the navi’im (biblical prophets and prophecies)?  We seem to collectively forget, we READ them every single Shabbos (the “haftara”).  And the Friedeker Rebbe (6th Lubavitcher Rebbe) and subsequently the Rebbe taught we should live with the times, meaning live with and bring the Torah portion of the week into our lives.  Yet we should ignore the Haftaraot while we see their events lining up right before our eyes???

The Rebbe tried to interpret the navi’im to events of the past and his time.  He tried to spare us many of the challenges that seem to be written by the holy prophets of the past.

We don’t know yet if he succeeded or not, because, still, here we are. 

May it be that Moshiach and the Geulah Shalayma is indeed right before our eyes, and today we will hear the great shofar and stand up and say ‘we have been like dreamers’. 

13 comments:

Anonymous said...

Akiva,
Are you actually bothering to attempt to argue with a meshicist?
It's pure futility.

Anonymous said...

the rebbe is the messiah the rebbe is the messiah spread the news far and wide the rebbe is the messiah the chosen one the pure one the heavenly king my rightous messiah king schneerson !

Anonymous said...

akiva, re your "But still, here we are.

These are not practical instructions for changing the world or the Jewish people. "

Excuse me and excuse the Rebbes and the Torah ??

These ARE practical instructions but maybe they are incomplete or not enough jews are applying them !

Other practical instructions: Noticing the good point(s) in every Jew(ess), guarding one's tongue, tzedaka, being humble and, learning the hidden Torah (eg zohar, Tanya, Likutei Moharan etc).

Anonymous said...

"the rebbe is the messiah the rebbe is the messiah spread the news far and wide the rebbe is the messiah the chosen one the pure one the heavenly king my rightous messiah king schneerson !"

I'm sorry to say this, and as much as I admire the lubavitcher Rebbe (and I really do!), I cannot stop to compare people stating such claims as yours to early jews who claimed that jesus was/is the Messiah. Do not doubt of where I stand, because to my mind the only point they have in common is the prophecies they failed to fulfill, other comparisons would be an insult to the great R.Schneerson.

If you're not aware of the prophecies, you should at least take some time and listen to his own words.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrZqruinhds&feature=related

The Messiah has yet to come.

Anonymous said...

I strongly disagree its necessary to annoint rav shneerson as messiah of david when he accepted the panim from chabad women he accepted Meshichut mamash as rav carlbach would say ! see the video ! As for these 18 years its like moses missing to us after he informed us hashem sent him . The rebbe said the same exact thing hashem sent him ie he said he was a prophet ie he said the mashiachs name isnt jesus as most of the world believes its menachem ! he said that ! rav nachman says the icker of ickerim of judaism is not to deviate right or left from what the tzaddik hador says , we failed him we didnt believe enough , he said if there were but 10 jews whod stammer shamasyim properly hed come ! is rav shneerson a liar i ask you . He raised this whole dor from 6 million in creimetoria before you compare him to the rav of the sitra achra yeshu hanotzri !

Anonymous said...

Im further sadedned by all the rabbis and raebbes and admorime who didnt ppublicly annoint the rebbe as mashiach ! they have or they dont ruach hakodesh ! If they dont know there not worthy of the title rabbi ! the rav shneerson made it clear he is the messiah of david and all we had to do is accept him . The rabbis of israel were skeptial or didnt believe him hundreds of thousands of russian jews and other jews are lost in xchristian cults indoctrinating jesus as messiah as a result of this great peirur !

Anonymous said...

Strictly speaking, and to my opinion, nobody has yet fulfilled the messiah requirements.

However I may have hurt you by giving you the case of jesus as an example (when in fact there were much more beyond him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah_claimants), so please accept my apologies if my last comment hurt you in anyway.

I'll keep waiting.

Shalom.

Akiva said...

Sadly Anonymous, your comments fail to answer the question of tachlis, what's the actual avoda or mitzvot to be done now to make your goal happen.

Worse, they leave us in the same position as the xians...'just believe'. Judaism has never been a "just believe" path. It's na'ase v'nishma, DO and then (Listen / Learn).

Rav Nati said...

the rebbe z''l is just that a righteous albeit dead Tzaddik he is neither KING or Mosiach, we have to all wake up to the private geula or there will never be a public ever. so wake up folks and do teshuvah This is what the Rebbe z''l
"Wanted from us to merely wake up and with a emunah filled heart fix our sekel, for our intellect is pagam until we fix our connection to our source", this is the whole meaning of Tanya and all the Rebbe's word's in one sentence.

Anonymous said...

i sadly agree the believe part has made us in this aspect of us like the derech of the xtian cult of sitra achra or the muslim cult of the 12th mati . This is so dangerous and sad yet im a follower in the rebbe as mashiach ben david despite this . Basically im saying to the muslim and xtian cults my mashiach is real and strronger then yours . For cryn out loud the man he said hes mashiach . As to rav natis comment emunah is way above seichel . A simple sefard who has emunah is way above a lithuanian rosh yeshivah who doesnt but knows shas forwards and backwards .

Anonymous said...

Listen i knew the rebbe in my late teens im 41 now iwas in crown heights in 93 when he was talking mashiach so i know first hand i was at the chabad yeshiva for baal tshuvas hadar hatorah learning tanya . When he died we were all shocked he said he did all he could do he said satan and darknesses forces were getting immense " no kidding " but would be destroyed forever . Weve learned frrom hitler when satan gets too strong . Does hashem want to destroy amalak or the sitra achra as chassidus calls it ? whats stopping hashem from doing this rav nati i know how tough you are . and finally is it the quantity of baal tshuvas or the quality , and dont we have enough already at this point . to give this dor merit so the sitra achra as the chassidim call it or amalak as the mitnagdime and sefardime call it can be uprooted ??

Dov Bar-Leib said...

I cannot believe that I am reading that one must believe that the Rebbe is Mashiach. Even to say that I believe that he must be Mashiach would in normal times cause a problem for the next generation, for they might necessarily conclude that one has to believe that he is Mashiach. This is most likely what happened in the original sect of Judaism that became Xtianity. In the first generation a group of Jews said that Yoshke was Mashiach, and in the next generation their children believed that if one did not believe that he was Mashiach, that person had lost his World to Come.

30,000 Bnei Ephraim calculated that the Exodus from Egypt was supposed to begin 400 years after the Covenant between the Parts. They left Egypt for the desert and summarily died. The real Exodus was 30 years later. Almost 20 years ago, the Lubavitcher Rebbe passed away. Immediately about 30,000 of his followers thought that he had to be Mashiach and that he had to come back from the dead to be Mashiach. Are you the gilgulim of the 30,000 Bnei Ephraim? I wonder what your tikkun will be. I will pray for you until then.

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