Tuesday, April 20, 2010

// // 18 comments

The Zionists or The Exile? - Part 1

by Reb Akiva at Mystical Paths

A wonderful reader and commentor Neshama send me this question...

A comment was written to Rabbi Lazer Brody in response to an interview of him on Israel National Radio / Arutz Sheva...

Rabbi Lazer, I respectively disagree with your Torah and assesments on the Middle East. According to my beloved teachers - the 2 greatest students of the arizl: Mashiach ben Yosef will lead Israel out of golut after his wounds are healed (Isiah). Then the war of Gog u Magog will take place.

I am a non zionist and I believe the zionists are erev rav and worse than idolaters - as my beloved teacher the Gra (the Vilna Gaon) warns. Edom is the issue, not Ishmael! Islam is monotheistic, Ishmael did tshuvah while Edom won't according to some.

The Jewish soul has been destroyed in Israel and the West by Xtianity and it's values! The erev rav walks hand in hand with Xtianity and its values. We need Mashiach HaRishon, not the erev rav and Edom and Amalek.

I respect you as a man of trust but I can't agree with you. I'm worried about the words of Achmedenijad and fear for Tel Aviv. I beg Hashem to return us to him, at least a little bit, and to have mercy on us!"


Is this what the majority of the frum & chassidishe yidden believe? I believe they are selectively quoting the Gra to support their beliefs. The Gaon was very much for yidden to make their way back to our homeland, as he desperately wanted to be there.

When the Gra wrote about the erev rav, I believe he intimated that some of them will be wearing frum clothing, building shuls, making a name for themselves, etc. Yet the Gedolim for many generations were were for our returning to Eretz HaKodesh. Today we find some of the present Rabbis that are reinforcing their constituents questions of insecurity, using the 'parnassa' issue to keep them in their current communities outside of Israel.

It reminds me (without real verifiable evidence, only hearsay) of all the yidden being told to "stay put" in Europe and not to go with the "zionists" to Israel (even if it meant saving lives). Similarly when some chassidim were 'kept in Russia' and warned about going along with the Napolean-freedom movement where they ended up mostly losing their yiddishkeit, dulling their sense of spirituality, dying and assimilating into the Russian winters; while the leftover French Jews are making aliya in droves, have kept a relationship with Judaism, and have thrived in France.

The fear of the challenges of the unknown are holding back so many; is it the "original Tisha B'Av" all over again?

How could anyone fail to understand that Eretz HaKodesh is breathing, growing flowers, children, homes, and food for Hashem's children ......... and she is in the headlines every day, and as you say, prophecies unfolding before our very eyes.

Do you hear what I'm saying?


--- My response in the forthcoming Part 2.

18 comments:

crazy smade said...

Anyone with cable in the States watch SHALOM TV? This week (ending 24 April 2010) Rabbi Mordechai Becher picks up on the theme of Israel with a look at the commandments relating to making aliyah and living in Israel, in another Talmud lesson he calls "Three Oaths," on "Dimensions of the Daf."

I mention this, because I once bought into the anti-Zionism of the Satmar and Neturei Karta. I'm not a big fan of secular governments to begin with, but after learning about the 1834 and 1838 massacres in Safed, Dhimmitude, the rise of Muhammed Amin al-Husseini and the Arab Nationalists (and more), I think that the only sensible thing to do is to make aliyah, if one can.

I don't like putting all of my eggs into one basket and doing so in a nuclear age could be setting one up for a serious fall, but with emunah, I have no doubt that the Jewish people and Israel will not only survive, but will prosper. Personally, I'd like to work with them.

Sadly, I think that remaining in the States will only bring about the same regret felt by those who remained in Germany. I honestly think that it will get that bad here. I'd like to leave before the collapse. I hope that HaShem gives every Jew the means and wherewithal to make aliyah, before the Nations do what they seem to do best.

ChaimJ said...

French Jews are only making aliya because of the overt and increasing anti-semitism. The intermarriage rate there is one of the highest in the world - around 90%.

There is also a big baal teshuvah movement currently in Russia yet when many of these baal teshivahs come to Israel they see Jews being free acting as goyim and forgetting the Torah. Many follow them.

There are frum Zionists and anti-frum Zionists. It is hard to put them in the same boat.

All in all - let us not lump Jews into any group but look at them as individual Jews who need to all come closer to Torah (no matter what level they are), to become closer to each other and to all have the goal to live in Israel soon.

Calling any Jew "the Eruv Rav" is a despicable idea and antithetical to Chassidis if not simply yiddishkeit.

Anonymous said...

f...... your chassidus im not a chassid ! number 1 ,number 2 the gra and ramchal are my rebbes are my geulah rebbes read them before you talk knowing it all.As for the difference between satmar and others ,,,,,,,what are we mortals supposed to say about towering souls . As for anti semitism in america im here in boston its thick you never see a chasid on the main streets because of the sitra achra . But wheather were satmar or chabad or litvish or kabbalists were here to do a job remove the nitzotzot from the klipot of amalak mainly through prayer see Chaim Vital so geulah can begin . Hopefully and this is a big hope the nations wont thwart this . If they do im going to Israel asap despite some medical issues !

Anonymous said...

In response to: "Calling any Jew "the Eruv Rav" is a despicable idea and antithetical to Chassidis if not simply yiddishkeit."

I don't think you realize that you are saying this about the Vilna Gaon chv's who wrote about this extensively in Kol HaTor. The explanation of Erev Rav is in the Pesach Hagadah, and their behavior is antithetical to chassidus. Case in point could be 'treasonous behavior'. Moshiach is the one who will be able to tell us "Who is a Jew" by the Jew's areyach.

ChaimJ said...

There is a clear difference calling someone actions or beliefs something and calling an actual Jew something.

Clearly you do not understand the cause of the destruction of the second beis hamikdahs.

Hatred, anger - what did the Ramchal write about those character traits.

Shiloh said...

Anon 2, you are correct that the Mashiach will be able to tell whom is Jewish. You know, some may not like his answer either. It reminds me of the story in the gemara about the certain animal sticking out his hooves.

Anonymous said...

Mashiach ben Yosefs klipah was yeshu as the klipah of moshe was bilaam according to ramchals main student . Missioaries use isaiah 53;1-12 to detail yeshu who is the klipah of mashiach ben yosef as ive explained . These pesukim are actualy detailing the travails and paths of mashiach ben yosef as Shlom carlbach z'tzl would say MAM ASH!!Who will lead Israel out of exile when Hashem wills according to the 2 main students of the geulah and ironicaly students of the arizl ramchal and the Gra . MBY is a master of sod , especially gematriot as the gaon expains . The perur I believe was the holy rebbe of chabad didnt complete in his lifetime his role as MBD because yesod preceedes malchut IE MBY the 70 th triad of 72 gematria gog umagog preceedes the 65th triad MBD gematria ADNY shem b'Malchut and the 5th triad MOSHE sod upper mother Binah who comes to complete the redemption with MBD. Psalms 20,24 , 110 , and 118 are all about MBY according to gra with the letters MBY or MBE mashiach ben efraim in roshei or sofi teivot or gematyriot throughouyt these psalms . Others have his missions sprinkled within .,as of course do Yaakovs and Moshes blessings as explained by the gra in kol hator shulchan aruch on the geulah . Final point the ingathering according to gra and ramchal happens BEFORE gog umagog as we were redeemed from pharoah before the 11th plague kriat yam suf . More then this is only for the initiated .

Anonymous said...

Those who are frum and erev rav are called the erev zeir ! this is the reason for the 2 zmanim of mincha see zohar on 5 types of erev rav parshat bereishite .Erev rav is strictly a term for the secular , erev zeir for the frum .

Anonymous said...

Isiah 53 1-12 as mentioned above on MBY. Who would have believed our report ? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed ? For he shot forth up as a sapling .And as a root out of dry ground . . He had no form or comeliness, that we should look upon him, nor beauty that we should delight in him .. He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of pains and aquainted with disease, and as one whom men hide there face.. He was despised and we esteemed him not .Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried. Whereas we esteemed him stricken , smitten of God and afflicted . But he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities, the chastisement of our welfare was upon him.And with his stripes we were healed ..All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way, and the Lord has made to light on him the iniquity of us all.He was opressed though he humbled himself, and opened not his mouth, as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its sheerers is dumb..Yea, he opened not his mouth.By opression and judgement he was taken awayAnd with his dor who did reason ?For he was cut out of the land of the living. For the transgression of my people for whom the stroke was due.And they made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich his tomb, although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.Yet it pleased the Lord to crush him by disease. To see if his soul would offer itself in restitution , that he might see his seed , prolong his days . and that the purpose of the Lord might prosper by his hand .Of the travail of his soulhe shall see to the full, even my servant. Who by his knowledgedid justify the rightous one to the many, and there iniquities he did bear ( see ramchal 70 tikkunim on mby in the klipot to extricate souls that have fallen there )Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, asnd he shall divide the spoil with the many ( see gra , ramchal on his success in war gog umagog )Because he bared his soul unto death.And was numbered with the transgressors ( see psalm 118 the stone the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone on mby)Yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors .

Anonymous said...

Kol hator in english by the gra and translated by his talmid rabbi hillel Shaklover. Translated by rabbi Yechiel bar Lev of Israel into english feldheim publishers. On the internet yedidnefesh.com or google kol hator . Ramchals secrets of the redemptiontranslated into english by rabbi Mordechai Nissim shlita also by feldheim . Ramchals other books on redemption ie 70 tikkunim , And God heard Rachel on mby , yehi or vayhi or on geulah , are all in original aramaic or hebrew . The lubavitcher rebbe said to study ESPECIALLY about redemption Ive been through several sefarim and have found nothing as thorough as the gra and ramchal of blessed memories on the profound subject of redemption.

Anonymous said...

Tell me, Anonymous, how do you personally reconcile the hashkafa of Chassidut, especially as expressed by the Lubavitcher Rebbe zatza"l, with the hashkafa of the RaMCha"L, especially as expressed by the GR"A zatza"l? I have always thought the two philosophies to be mutually incompatible (the Rebbe saying that the world will keep improving until Mashiach comes, which will be the culmination of all that is good, while the GR"A saying, basically, that things will get worse before they get better, such as Milchemet Gog U'Magog; the Rebbe emphasizing Mashiach ben David, while the GR"A emphasizing Mashiach ben Yosef). I would love to see your response.

yitz.. said...

I don't think the original commenter (the one quoted in the post) was yeshivishe. If anything he sounds more like a quasi-Jewish follower of the Kabbalah Center.. though I could be mistaken.

If that's really a yeshivishe kup then I'm floored..

The GR"A sent followers to make aliyah.. many followers.

Zvika said...

I tend to agree with the original comment in the blog post, especially in light of who it was directed to, who's responding and the media. Just a few short comments (I'll only elaborate if asked to do so):

1) Arutz Sheva is biased, regardless of what people in the US and abroad think. The English speaking broadcasters associate with very sketchy people, many of whom advocate violence and murder towards Arabs. Not a good idea in general, especially if you want more readers. It would behoove you distance yourselves from them.

2) Brody, Arush and Yitzhak's rhetoric about the end of America and another holocaust is tiring at this point.

3) A comment on the original question: Islam is NOT a Monotheistic religion. It is a pagan religion. Allah was Muhammad's father's moon god. In addition, the Kaaba historically was an asteroid. In short, Islam basically is worshipping UFOs.

Before you all start attacking me, know this: I made aliyah right after Obama (or as I call him, the NIC) won the election and I did not vote for the man.

Anonymous said...

Zvika, I don't really understand you. You say that Brody, Arush, and Yitzhak's rhetoric is tiring at this point, yet, in order to defend yourself, you state that you made Aliyah right after Obama won the election and you didn't vote for him. Unless you only mentioned Obama as an excuse to not be attacked while it has nothing to do with the reason you made Aliyah, what about him caused you to make Aliyah, if not for fear of another Holocaust, etc., chas v'shalom? Also, I don't know where you get your information on Islam from. To state that it is a pagan religion, and to bring up Allah as being a moon-god, is simply not factual. Allah is just the Arabic name for G-d (similar to E-l or E-lohim in hebrew); prior to Islam, Christians, Jews, and others who spoke Arabic used that term to describe Him. I suspect that if you read R' Saadiyah Gaon's translation of the Torah into Arabic (not 100% sure because, admittedly, I've never read it myself), you would find HaShem's Name translated the same way. I'm quite sure that the only people to make such an assertion about Allah are the ones who say that HaShem ("Yahweh") was an Edomite war-god who K'lal Yisrael adopted into their faith while at the same time worshipping many other gods (in short, they would argue that Judaism, too, is, by your definition, a pagan religion, since it originated from pagan beliefs), chas v'shalom. And lastly, Muslims don't worship the Kaaba, they treat it in a very similar manner to how we treat the Har HaBayit (or, for those of us who believe that we are forbidden to ascend the Mount, the Kotel). All they really do is pray facing towards it during their daily prayers (as we do with the Har HaBayit/Kotel) and make a pilgrimage there at least once during there lifetime. (Pretty much the only thing I don't feel I can argue with you on is about Arutz Sheva, since I am not familiar enough with it.) On a brighter note, though (simply out of curiosity) what does NIC (the term you used for Obama) stand for?

Zvika said...

Anonymous, you really need to read some history of the Middle East and the Pagan roots of Islam. You'll find much of what I'm saying there.

It was only with the advent of Islam and Muhammad's bastardization of Judaism that became known as Islam (which btw, has nothing to do with peace, even the name Islam in Arabic means to force someone else to do something) that Allah became associated with HaShem. That is linked to Muhammad's attempts to convert Jews by creating a pagan-Jewish hybrid of a religion. Regardless, you are correct - Rabbeinu Sa'adya does translate it that way - I know this because I am reading it in Arabic right now as part of a master's degree program. The Kaaba may not be related to paganistic and pantheistic religion any more, but it certainly was worshipped in this manner in the past.

As for my dislike for the rhetoric emanating from those Rabbis mouths - yes, my Aliyah is somewhat linked to that, but that is a personal issue and I will not speak further of it on this blog because it might qualify as various Issurim relating Lashon Hara. If you send me an email, I will explain this further (I will not use names, however, becaue that would make it absolute Lashon Hara). The actual reason for Aliyah was to get graduate school covered since there was no way I could afford it on my own.

As for Obama and Aliyah - many people who also comment on this blog have accused me of living in the US, being Anti-Israel and Anti-Zionist and pro-Obama as well as other unsavory things. This is why when I comment and criticize, I make sure to say that I live in Israel and did not vote for Obama - so those people who wish to criticize me via ad-hominem attacks don't even have the opportunity to do so and make them instead focus on what it is I said.

Regarding Obama, I think he's a smooth talker. I don't think he has any experience whatsoever - as shown by his constantly leaving work to play golf and kowtowing to every other leader on the planet. I dislike his socialist policies (Yes, I know Israel is Socialist as well and that drives me nuts on a daily basis).

As for NIC, that's a racist term for Obama that a friend of mine coined (Negro (or the other word for the real racists) In Charge).

If you have any other questions or comments, you can post them here or email me.

Shabbat Shalom

Anonymous said...

I went to 7 yeshivas they shunned me and they shunned kabbalah of geulah or any kabbalah . NO im not a yiddishe kop im a free thinker ! they treated me like crap like Yosef to his brothers Its my prayer when theytre screwed I dont do the same to them . I found REAL torah teachers outside the yeshivah and in my personal hitbodedut daily sometimes 10-20 houurs straight with Hashem . Ive also learned a ton through my dreams and the advice tzaddikim . I respect the Talmud and halacha but cant take the erev zeir approach to todays yeshivot dont put the berg people down what kind of joke do you think its to rashbii that madonna has learned far more sod then any of these yisheve koups .God help them how theyve delayed mashiach in my opinion more then anyone including the secular erev rav !As for anonymous's question the gra quotes in kol hator its a time of tzara ie rotteness for yaakov from it he'll be saved . I believe its a manic depressive up down type of situation in this period were in oviousely until geulah really kicks in . Dont get to high or to low hishtavut the kabbalists and chi masters of the east always say . Its good for long life tooo . A fence for wisdom is silence , Wisdom brings long life both quotes from the middle mishnah pirke avot .Im with the grsa school the beginings of geulah ie mashiach ben yosef brings challenges with gras and ramchals words we can get through it , no this spiritual battle on all levels for many of us is part of gog umagog . As the gra says the more the nations of the world cause us suffering individually ie embarressment etc or collectively it lessens the din on israel during gog umagog , which the gra says happens after the miraculous geulah from exile . Read the book of Isaiah many refrences are made with the malbim commentery also ramchal and gra add a lot . Asfor the lubavitcher rebbe he was maybe still is a neshama klali , is He still MBD ,,,,,I hope so , but /I dont know ithas been 16 years .

Anonymous said...

Zvika, first off, I really appreciate the way you responded to my arguments against you (or, rather, what you said in your comment). Not everyone has the integrity and/or the decency to respond to sharp, critical comments the way you did. Yasher koach. (Incidentally, most of us could do well to learn from your response, such as not to defame our fellow Jews, even in moments when we feel personally threatened.) You have pretty much satisfactorily answered all of my objections; however, may I ask where you get your sources on Middle Eastern history (I assume that they would also contain the history on Islam) from? It's not that I think that they are "historically" inaccurate, but just about every "historic" source on Middle Eastern religions are filled with apikorsis regarding our own. I mean, have you seen any of them (I assume that, if they talk about Middle Eastern religions and their histories, they also mention Judaism) endorse the traditional Jewish view on our own history? Maybe you and I have different sources, but all "historical" treatment on this subject that I've seen has said dimilar things about the origins of Judaism (see my original comment, in response to you, for an example). If you could answer that, I'd greatly appreciate it. Lastly, I'm not sure if you've heard this one before, so I'll share it here: (I heard it from a Chabad rabbi, who helps bring a lot of liberals back to authentic Judaism. This was on Rosh HaShannah 5769, prior to the election, when one of these liberals was extolling Obama's "merits" to him. This is the response he got:) "I'll prove to you that the Obama campaign is a scam." "Really? How?" "What is the one word that Obama says America needs most?" "Change." "Spell it out for me." "C-H-A-N-G-E." "Acronym for "come help a n""""" get elected." Hope you enjoy that. Lastly (and this time really lastly), I would definitely appreciate having your email address. Do you think you could post it here? Pesach Sheini Sameach!

Zvika said...

Hi Anonymous

Baruch Tehiyeh. It's nothing. I don't take things too personally, I try to keep the argument or discussion to the issues at hand. Ad hominem attacks only show how weak the opposing argument actually is. It's something I learned from my parents.

As for my information regarding Allah and Islam, I can't remember exactly where I read that information, but I do recall it. I'll have to do a search again and see what I come up with. I haven't seen anyone endorse history as Judaism says it we say it happens. The only thing I've heard is kind of like what you said about HaShem being a Caananite war god. Apparently according to the Zoroastrian tradition, HaShem is their evil god Ahriman. But do keep in mind that most historians have an Orientalist and anti-religious view when it comes to religion so they are usually never in favor of a religion - although I did once read a history book in college written by a Jew who referred to Muhammad as a reformer.

As for the Obama joke - Nice one.

As for my email, it's zvi.s.karon@gmail.com.

Shabbat Shalom,

Zvika

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