Tuesday, June 30, 2009

// // 9 comments

Rabbinate and State - Kashrus for Apostates

by Reb Akiva at Mystical Paths

(Haaretz) The Israeli High Court of Justice on Monday ordered the Ashdod Rabbinate to grant kashrut certification to a local bakery owned by a Messianic Jew.

Justices ruled that both the Ashdod Rabbinate and the Chief Rabbinate Council, which backed its decision, had exceeded the authority granted them by the Kashrut Law when they demanded that the bakery meet special conditions not demanded of other enterprises solely because the owner is a Messianic Jew. (h/t Twitter-Religion_State)


Anyone want to know why independent ultra-orthodox kashrus (kosher supervising) agencies are used exclusively by the vast majority of the religious community?

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wait a minute! The Ashdod Rabbinate and the Chief Rabbinate Council was actually willing - after the bakery met special conditions - to grant said bakery kashrut certification?

What were the special conditions? That the staff be supervised by a Jew who didn't practice avodah zarah by believing in the xian trinity or the deification of a Jew? If so, why would that "special condition" be a problem?

Messianics (even the fully Gentile ones) are always calling themselves Jews of one kind or another, yet only a handful are actually Jews in the halakhic sense and the vast majority of Messianics practice some form of avodah zarah! (Only a scant few believe that the historical man was simply a man).

Secondly, isn't the pot calling the kettle black? What is the Israeli High Court of Justice that its judges can force a religious authority, which actually answers to a MUCH HIGHER AUTHORITY, to bend their knee to a SECULAR authority and a SECULAR version of justice?

Forget about the Arab issue in your backyard for a moment and deal with the enemy that's in your own house putting a gun to your head!

I would tell this Messianic Baker to read his own book (1 Corinthians 6:1-8) and to stop turning to a SECULAR authority for help in his desire to weasel his way into Jewish communities and thereby deceive the unwitting in order to spread his avodah zarah! SHAME ON YOU, Mr. Messianic "Want-to-be Kosher" Baker! SHAME ON YOU!

josh said...

I think the claim that the vast majority of religious jews depend on Haredi badatzes is exagerated.

On one hand (the small one) the Haredim in Israel take on more stringencies than their equally Haredi brothers in galut, on the other hand, they have, in general, corrupted and castrated the common rabbanut here so that the kashrut certification is just barely passing. How can I claim this? Well, a simple non-scientific survey shows that most mashgichim are Haredi Ashkenazi or Sepharadi. Most do not eat rabbanut food, and end up certifying food they do not eat themselves (or at least admit openly). I would hope that most are God fearing Jews, but the system itself is not standardized and I'm sure that the frustration with dealing with it takes its toll and the mashgichim get desensitized about caring too much. I know some who still fight for a high standard at the establishments they certify (even if the alterior motive is they want to eat some snacks for free :-) but others simply do not check for dotted i's or crossed t's.

So since the rabanut kashrut has been castrated by the Haredim with cooperation from the secular courts, we really have almost no choice but demand badatzes. I personally would choose a badatz product over a similarly priced regular product. And frankly, when you shop at the religous/Haredi supermarkets, these products are usually cheaper than the regular products in the other supermarkets.

Anonymous said...

The larger problem is one of "disguise," so to speak, that will lead Jews into sin unknowingly. By obtaining "Kashrus certification," the idol-worshipper who owns the bakery will now misrepresent his goods as being Kosher. Some unknowing Yehudi will stroll in, and (unknowingly) buy bread of an idolater.
Ha ovdei cohavim v'mazzaloth intersperse themselves, but they do not realize G-D's judgment will be upon them for causing any of us (even unknowingly)to violate mitzvot.
I say do what I do: I bake my own bread once a week; then I know I am safe, Baruch HaShem.

And for Anonymous above. You are right on everything. Please, though, (I say for your benefit) in the future: do not cite the texts of the unclean, even to use them to refute their own practices. Everything else, I am with you.
Would that these were the days of Yehoshua. Then, we would show them. Pray for it for Tikkun Hassoth, as will I.
Berachos v'ahavas Yisroel. L'chayyim,
Yeshayahu Galluzzo

Yehudi Yerushalmi said...

Bagatz continues to descend to depths that never cease to leave me speechless.

The Chillonim complain of Kefiya Datit - I only see evidence of Kefiya Chillonit.

Ad Mattai???

Anonymous said...

Dear YG, Yes, I understand your concern about alluding to Xian writings. This really isn't the place to do that, I apologize to anyone I might have offended. However, I do think it's important to put that material back into the proper context and thereby educate the Xians and correct their errors, especially when it directly impacts Jewish communities. That said, this isn't the place for doing that. I read the linked article, which said that the baker in question was a Yemenite Jewess. I thought it was someone linked with that Messianic guy on YouTube who is always kvetching about the Hasidim attacking him. It seems this woman didn't fight the ruling initially. I wonder what made her turn to the government for help. I wonder why she didn't just go with the original ruling. It didn't seem unreasonable to me.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous,
I thank you for your kind words. No need to apologize. I understand completely why you quoted it; the idolaters' writings are rife with contradictions and half-truths. Sometimes when they spout their drivel, it is very hard to maintain silence. It is also difficult to teach them (the goyim) anything without showing that you at least have some knowledge of what they spout. Do not worry: they do not even follow what they claim to uphold, of their own flawed beliefs.
My favorite example is from two years past. They celebrated their day of the crucified man-god out of order. The aviv had not been aligned with the Rosh HaKodesh, and we had the thirteenth month. The goyim had their "Hallmark $19.99 calendars" with the computer-estimated-Pesach date, and their man-god-idol day follows it. Since we had to add the extra month (the true date), they (X-tians) were oblivious, and uncaring, and went ahead and had their human-sacrifice day BEFORE Pesach. No rules, no laws, no order...every one of them doing whatever...whenever.
They don't really believe in G-D. No, really. They are just going through the motions. The Ramchal summarized them in Mesillas Yesharim as the "third class," the masses who only do things for the sake of reward or to avoid punishment. These goyim grew up in the way of the ovdei cohavim v'mazzaloth and they superficially follow their own practices for the sake of the reward/punishment stimulus (as the Ramchal wrote).
The best thing to do is cite ha parshatim haTorah that they contradict with their actions. Also remember: those of them who hear your words one day are coming with guns and torches the next.
They will see the truth, achi, believe me. What we must do is have faith in our G-D, and (almost of equal importance) keep faith with one another.
Berachos v'shalom,
Yeshayahu Galluzzo

Anonymous said...

Anon:

We cannot know for certain, but if she accepted the initial ruling and then reversed herself, seeking government help, it is likely that the cause was taken up by the enormously wealthy organizations behind messianic xtianity. They have gained ground in Eretz Yisroel.

Yesha,

Excellent points--all. I was wondering about you recently and it is good to "hear" from you.

Shabbat shalom,
HaSepharadi

Shiloh said...

Ummm, Yesha, this last Pesach did not line up with the new moon sighting, when Pesach is to start. We celebrated on Wed, it was sighted in Israel on Fri. Our fixed calendar is off also. Even more laughable was the blessin of the sun, off by just 2 weeks!!

Religion and State in Israel said...

thanks Akiva for the Hat Tip!

Joel

Religion and State in Israel

@religion_state

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