Monday, January 19, 2009

// // 16 comments

Only G-d is Everywhere

by Reb Gutman Locks at Mystical Paths

Three American men and a young boy walked up to the tefillin stand a couple of days ago. Something didn’t seem right to me, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. Their razor cut hairstyles and blue jeans didn’t fit any Jewish community that I could recall. For sure the boy and two of the men did not look Jewish.

I asked the apparent leader of the group if he was Jewish. He said that he was. “Is your mother Jewish?” I wanted to make sure since no one with him seemed Jewish.

He said that she was.

When I started to put tefillin on him, the boy came closer. I asked if he was his son. He said that he was, and that the boy was thirteen years old and would be coming to the Kotel next year for his bar mitzvah.

“Something’s not straight here,” I thought. (Bar Mitzvahs are at thirteen not fourteen) But I did not want to start up with him and risk having him walk away without putting on tefillin.

“Are you sure your mother is Jewish?” He assured me that she was.

“I was last here thirteen years ago when I came to pray for his health.” He pointed to his son.

After he read the prayers in English he cited the chapter and line where they are found in the Torah.

“Uh Oh!” I thought, “The only ones who don’t know how to put on tefillin but can cite the location of the prayers in the Bible are Xians.

“It seems like maybe you have been studying something new,” I said.

“I’ve been studying the Bible,” he answered.

“And maybe something new added to it too?” I asked.

I have been studying the Old Testament and the New Testament too,” he said proudly.

“But that book is not right.”

“It talks of the messiah,” he said.

“When the messiah comes there will be peace. Do you see peace in the world?” I asked.

He said that he didn’t.

“Then the messiah hasn’t come yet,” I said. “The messiah has to be a Jewish man from the tribe of Yehudah. And the tribes are fixed according to the father of the child. Who is your messiah’s father?” I asked.

He said, “god.”

“Then he can’t be the messiah because he is not from the tribe of Yehudah.” I asked him if G-d was in the heart of the devil.” He tried to avoid answering. I pressed him. “Is G-d everywhere?”

He said, “Yes.”

I said, “Then only worship G-d Who is everywhere.”

He agreed.

I asked if the man he called the messiah was everywhere. He tried to change the subject. I asked again, “Where is G-d?” He tried to avoid the question. I asked again.

He finally had to say that yes, G-d is everywhere.

“Then don’t worship that man you call the messiah because he is not everywhere,” I said.

“He is the son of god,” he said.

“So are you,” I said. He was thrown back. I said it again. “You are the son of G-d.”

“We are the children of god,“ he argued.

I told him, “It’s the same word in Hebrew.” And again I said, “You are the son of G-d.”

He had to agree.

I made him repeat it so his son and the other men with him were sure to hear him say it. “So if you are the son of G-d, why are you telling me about that guy being the son of god? We are all the sons of G-d.” And again I said, “Don’t worship him because he is not everywhere.”

“When the messiah comes don’t you think that he will be divine?” he asked.

“He will be a man of flesh and blood just like we are,” I told him.

His head jerked backwards. He was shocked by my answer.

“Don’t you go to the High Priest for atonement?” he asked.

“No. No way,” I answered.

“Then what do you do for atonement?” he wanted to know.

“I go home and eat with my friends at my table,” I answered. “There’s no Temple today. Our tables are our altars now.”

Again I pressed him, “Only worship the G-d Who is everywhere and that man is not everywhere.”

“G-d the Father,” he offered.

“G-d the Only,” I countered.

He repeated himself. I repeated myself. Again I said, “Only worship the One Who is everywhere and that man is not everywhere.”

“The holy spirit,” he said.

“The Holy Spirit (Ruach Hakodesh) is not everywhere,” I said. “Don’t worship it, either. Worship only the one G-d Who is everywhere.”

I took the tefillin off him and gave him my website address. I told him to write me his questions.

“If I write to you, will you answer me?” he asked.

I said that I would, but I doubted he would write. I told his son to remember my address because his father was going to forget it on purpose.

They walked away, shaken, but probably unchanged. Xians are taught that all they need to do to be saved is to believe in their “son of god.” And if they do not believe in the divinity of their “messiah/god” they will not be forgiven for their sins and they will burn in hell forever. This is a real fear for them that rules their spiritual and even their physical lives.

But this guy was unusual. Always, when I try to give Xians even one or two thoughts that threaten their belief they immediately back away. He didn’t. Maybe he will write after all. We’ll see.

16 comments:

will said...

Well, some, probably most Christians are as you caricature them - truth is, they go a long way in caricaturing themselves. But there are others of an esoteric bent such as myself, those who might interpret their Christianity (and Christ) through the works of Jacob Boehme, as one example. For us, a statement like "Xians are taught that all they need to do to be saved is to believe in their “son of god”" is . . . well, let's call it reductionist. Surely there are Jews who also have a paint-by-the numbers perspective of their own faith?

I might add that I read your blog regularly and learn much from it.

Anonymous said...

Come on, Will. If you believe that "Jesus" or whatever name YOU call him by is HaShem Himself or some three-in-one combo of Deity or is some mystical "Lesser HaShem" and/or you buy into the Virgin Birth stuff, then you're an Xian or some sectarian version thereof. You're not doing the historical man's memory any favors by perpetuating the mythological construct that's been built up around him. No wonder so many Jews have no desire to redeem this Jewish captive of the Church! Esoteric bend? Your pseudo-qabalistic notions are little more proto-Gnosticism. Again, I apologize to the site owners for my rant. This stuff makes me crazy!

will said...

Gee, Anonymous . . . there's about 40 wars going on as we speak, the world's financial system is on life-support, people are dying of cancer, somebody just got swallowed up by an earthquake etc. . . and you're going all bonkers over what *I* believe? (not that you know what I believe)

C'mon, get your ducks in a row, will ya? Prioritize! Time is always short.

will said...

Gee, Anonymous . . . there's about 40 wars going on as we speak, the world's financial system is on life-support, people are dying of cancer, somebody just got swallowed up by an earthquake etc. . . and you're going all bonkers over what *I* believe? (not that you know what I believe)

C'mon, get your ducks in a row, will ya? Prioritize! Time is always short.

Anonymous said...

Will, I did say,"IF you believe that...." Thish was meant to qualify the "You're not doing" and "those who might"
and "Your pseudo-qabalistic notions" that followed. *IF* the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it, Will.

Further, since I don't live in Israel and I can't really do anything about wars, the economy, cancer and earthquakes, my priorities are taking a stand against Xianity (in all its guises), Islam and Paganism and the adherents of these belief-systems who want to spread their ignorance and their anti-Semitism, while they try to assimilate and destroy Jews.

will said...

Anonymous, I think we all can do something about wars, cancer, etc., if we, as individuals develop our own spiritual potentials - spiritual osmosis, so to speak. That would be MY first priority.

Now, if you think that my mere little spiritual perspective and mild expression thereof is an anti-Semetic attempt to assimilate and destroy Jews, I would suggest you are fighting the wrong battle.

Anonymous said...

(different anon)
to will and all xns who want to convert jews:
there are two battles israel is fighting.
against physical destruction
against spiritual destruction.


neither enemy will win because the Creator of the Universe promises us(israel) that we will survive,be vindicated and that all the goyim will be running to us to learn torah.

what you are missing is the spiritual battle. missionary activity disgustingly oozing with "love" is a big problem in israel, america etc.

take your xn "love" and shove it.

the jews know full well who are enemies and allies are.

if xns want to support israel and stop the missionary, messy-antics, then fine.

otherwise, go somewhere else.

we can see you, smell you, and detect your wretched tactics.

btw, it wasn't so long ago that xns marched accross the world killing anyone and everyone who didn't bow to the cross. many millions of jews were killed this way over the centuries. and historians see the holocaust as the culimination of 2000 years of xn antisemitism.

the xn bible is filled with jew hate.

get a clue, idiot.

will said...

To Anonymous the Really Angry -

Just where did you get the idea that I want to convert Jews to Christianity?

I DON'T!

FWIW I do support Israel, very much so.

I'd advise you to get all your info together before you start inveighing away.

Shiloh said...

Anon, you are correct. The xtian book is filled with anti-Torah, Jew hating lies. Any xtian who say's otherwise has not read his book thoroughly. But don't you worry, Esav is taking their last shot at us. The last verse of Ovadiah has been fulfilled several years ago, thus beginning the geulah, so expect them to not go down quietly. They have no clue what is about to happen, and they think we are the ones who have it wrong. Maybe they should take heed to their book, "take the beam out of their own eyes, before they try to take the speck out of ours." It's finished.

Anonymous said...

Anon1 here. I agree with Anon2 and in principle with Shiloh and will leave Will to his nebulous comments. However, it's my opinion that Xns need to be educated about their own books, which many Orthodox Jewish scholars have be attempting to do for over 100 years now. The latest attempt was that of Rabbi Harvey Falk, who wrote "Jesus the Pharisee," and he demonstrates (as do others) that the historical man was more or less in line with Beit Hillel and that he had a beef with Beit Shammai, not in small part due to the incident recorded for us in Talmud Babli Shabbat 17a and Talmud Yerushalmi Shabbat 1:4. In short, the historical man was merely a non-scholastic who desired to advance a Baalei Teshuvah movement amongst the non-observant with a little "Moshiach Now!" added into the mix. Sadly, like so many others, he feel victim to the cult of personality and the Goyim made a total mess of things in due course. Yes, Shiloh is correct in that Xns and Xnity is anti-Semitic, despite paying lip service to supporting a Jewish State.

Shiloh said...

Anon 1. There is a wealth of information of the historical Ribi. He was ordained by Gamliel 1, his following of Torah observant Jews where following Torah and halachah, used only Tanach as their Bible and Hebrew Mattiyahu of his teachings (of which was never a 'bible'). They ignored the rest of the books as per the early church historian Eusebius. His followers, originally called Netzarim, corrupted to nazarenes, where what we would call today modern Orthodox. Really the only difference between them and the other Torah observant Jews, is they did believe he was Mashiakh ben Yosef (not Ben David). The major problem today, is if you mention the historical Jew (opposed to the roman pagan idol counterfeit named j*sus) in Jewish circles, people flip their lid because they are not educated in who he was and only know the anti-semetic anti-Torah lie. It's against halacha to slander a kosher Jew. One must distinguish the historical Jew, who was a Ribi, teaching ONLY Jews to follow Torah, from the other xtian lie (j*sus). Two versions. I have mentioned before, that any Jew, who has a problem with that, should seek a Rav like the former Cheif Rabbi Eliyahu and ask him. He will confirm exactly what I am saying. Call Rav Dahan in Israel. Another group doing excellent work is Jews for Judaism in Toronto. Rav Skobac has really tried to teach Jews who this guy was (not saying he was Mashiakh ben Yosef though). He knows me also, we have talked extensively on battling against this lie. Now, if Jews knew exactly who he was, there would be NOT one Jew going to xtianity, or messianic judaism (xtianity with a Jewish flavour) but following Torah as he taught, as any kosher Rav would do today. Also, you would have goyim following him, in his real teachings which are Torah, Yom Kippur, Pesach etc etc and not the pagan idolotry of their holidays worshipping the false gods of m*thra, i*htar etc. Debunking the greatest lie of history would invalidate xtianity, and obviously the ishmaelites religion. The world would then follow Torah, exactly as prophesied. Weird thought!!! Now, taking it a step further, he is blamed for the lie of Esav (xtianity), therefore, what soul would be the one of Ovadiah) Freaky when you think about it, but not out of the realm of Jewish theology. I constantly in the galut have goyim trying to teach me about him and his teachings. When I am done with them, they don't really like what I have to tell them and don't come back for more. It's time they get the ear full, not Jews.

Shiloh said...

Anon 1, the Talmud is unreliable for his teachings as Rashi redacted it. For a good reason to save lives. A good book is by Oxford Scholar James Parkes, the coflict of the church and the synagogue. I by the way have read a recreation of Hebrew Matityahu, which is 100% according to Halacha. There is nothing that would offend Torah observant Jews in it. Nothing! But would offend xtians as it puts their book on it's head. Soon, we won't have this problem anyway, not to worry.

Shiloh said...

correction-- he is blamed for the lie of Esav (xtianity), therefore, what soul would JUDGE the lie as in the last verse of Ovadiah?

Izzy said...

An honest question: how many of you have read and/or studied the New Testament? I'm not talking about been taught about, but personally have read and/or studied the New Testament. Just an honest question... I've spoken to several Jews as well as Christians, and most of them seem to have only been taught by teachers, preachers, and Rabbis, about the New Testament, not personally read or studied it.

mink said...

I think that the best thing you could do for a Christian who is actually, by birth, a Jew, is to ask him to honestly reread the Five Books of Moses and think about whether there is any room there for the abrogation of the special covenant with the Jews, and for even one of the commandments. There is no way around the many repetitions of the fact that these things were given to the Jews to keep and cherish forever (not to be "fulfilled" and thus cancelled). While we may not be able to do everything at all times in our history, in Christianity there is no attempt to preserve and cherish the entirety of Torah, and the strong language of the Chumash on this theme is just brushed aside. And then, show that "Christian" Jew that, despite what he is led to believe in the NT, Jews today have a living, spiritual relationship with God. Show him just one deeply spiritual Jew and he will be utterly shocked: Paul, etc. leave no room for the existence of such a creature. There.... that's what worked for me, anyway! Keep up your good work.

Joe in Australia said...

Izzy, I have read the Christian scriptures - the "New Testament", you call it - and I've discussed them with a number of Christian Jews. I'm very glad that several of them subsequently returned to belief in G-d. Have you read the Christian scriptures? If so, then how can you reconcile Jesus and his original followers' lifestyle, which was mostly that of orthodox Jews, with the antinomian lifestyle promoted by Paul? How can you reconcile belief in the Trinity with the fact that Jesus himself never preached it? Why did Jesus' own family (including Mary!) think that he was mad?

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